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Equipment : Tibhar Evolution EL-S and FX-S

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Author: wanchope
Subject: Tibhar Evolution EL-S and FX-S
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:42pm

Great to hear about this. I bought els for my fh and fxs for bh. I haven't got the chance to glue them on yet. My old rubbers are still working.

Edited by wanchope - 14 minutes ago at 3:47pm

Equipment : Kokutaku Alnon Review

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Author: AndySmith
Subject: Kokutaku Alnon Review
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:51pm

For the past few weeks I've been lucky enough to be able to use one of Kokutaku's new blade range - Alnon.  KKT are of course probably best known for their 1-ply hinoki blades, but have also got quite an extensive range of all sorts of other constructions -  3-ply, 5-ply, carbon, etc - most of which aren't so well-known outside of Japan.

Well, now they have 4 new blades, all Made in Japan:

Alnon - Koto/AramidCarbon/Limba/Kiri
Zenon - Limba/ZylonCarbon/Limba/Kiri
CanonZYC - Hinoki/ZylonCarbon/Kiri
CanonTRC - Hinoki/Carbon/Kiri

I think it's pretty obvious what kind of market KKT are aiming for here, and which blade archetypes they've decided to produce.  Here are some pictures!











Initial Inspection

The finish is absolutely impeccable - this is a very well-made blade.  No blemishes anywhere, with a super-smooth koto top ply.  The wings were razor-sharp and needed a light sanding to avoid the need for bloodshed.  The aramid/carbon weave is very well fitted with basically nothing poking out (you can see a little bit of fibre extrusion where I've sanded the wings, but that's it).  This is essentially as well-made as any other Japanese-made blade you care to put it up against.  The cut on the weave layer is much nicer than, say, Xiom's Vega blades, Donic's Baum Spirit, or a DHS cheapo special like the Fang Bo 2.  This might not be a problem in practical terms for these blades, but there is a difference in terms of quality of finish.

This one is 86g, FL handle, 157x150, 5.8mm thick.

Short Review

I think it's important not to beat around the bush with this one.  This is the most Viscaria-like of any blade I've ever used.  I directly compared Alnon to a Viscaria (silver tag, pre-hologram) of the same weight with the same rubbers (Hybrid K1 Plus, Rasanter V42), and I found it incredibly hard to pick the bones out of the comparison.  The handle on the Alnon seemed a bit wider and flatter.  The basic speed and sweet spot were near-identical.  The initial sharp koto feel was present on both.  If I had to pull something out of the air, I'd say that the Alnon was ever so slightly softer and stiffer when looping harder - there seemed to be a slightly different feel on harder hits, and a touch lower arc on the Alnon.  Alnon perhaps felt a touch more stable/predictable through those middle gears at the expense of some top-end speed.  But in all honesty I've had plenty of Viscarias over the years and they've varied to a larger degree than this.  In a blind test I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference between the two.

As you would then expect, Alnon did a superb job with the tacky K1 Plus - adding a little bit of additional initial speed in comparison with my usual 5-ply all-wood, and removing the need for so much effort with the arm swinging when slightly away from the table.  Rasanter V42 was good, but when I switched it out for Rozena I was super-happy with both BH penetration and spin.  Rozena shines in this kind of setup IMO.

How well KKT does with these blades is probably going to come down to price vs the obvious competition, perhaps helped by having a handle choice and being able to order internationally.  But as a Viscaria alternative I can't think of a closer match than this.

Many thanks for Chewy over at http://www.rocket-tt.com for offering up the Alnon for early purchase.  There is more information over at KKT's website too - http://www.kokukdaku.com/

Equipment : Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro

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Author: tabletennisfire
Subject: Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:52pm

Thank you for your response.

Equipment : Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro

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Author: tabletennisfire
Subject: Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:54pm

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Originally posted by Zaid323918 Zaid323918 wrote:

Yh it's a koto top ply, 7 ply arylate carbon blade. Baal who is an expert on the Viscaria said that the True Carbon is the closest thing he found to the Viscaria in terms of feel etc


My bad - read that as Force Pro is like the True Carbon. Yep, the True Carbon is essentially a direct Viscaria clone. Several posters including Baal who have come to that conclusion. However, the Force Pro is nothing like the OTC/Visc.


Thank you very much for your response. I was confused because tabletennisdb.com which rates all blades in fact rated the force pro (black edition not the old one) as the third best blade after dhs long 5 with a 9.7 speed rating. The Viscaria is a distant 20th with a 9.3 speed rating.

Equipment : Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro

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Author: tabletennisfire
Subject: Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:54pm

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

I'm quite sure the OTC will be faster. 

As for the blade slipping issue, and with full disclosure that you know about the blade you contacted me about, grip tape or anatomic handle is the way to go.


Thank you very much for your response.

Equipment : BTY 2017 Rozena

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Author: AndySmith
Subject: BTY 2017 Rozena
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:58pm

Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

Andy thank you a lot for the pictures. The blade has viscaria light handle cups and I think it is a dhs arylate-carbon?!

It's a bit of an unfair tease by me really.  It's yet to be released.

Can't wait to see the answer of the mysterious blade. As the handle cups regards, I think I am "in" 101%, but about the blade....hmmmvery difficult to say...I will insist on a DHS arylate carbon.

Unfair mystery blade reveal:

Videos : Second Annual Hawkeye Open Final Highlights

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Author: PingPongPom
Subject: Second Annual Hawkeye Open Final Highlights
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 3:59pm

Enjoy! :)


Equipment : Kokutaku Alnon Review

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Author: jpenmaster
Subject: Kokutaku Alnon Review
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:12pm

I love it's made in JAPANE .....

For sale : FS. Butterfly Kim Taek Soo blue label

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Author: KLHfans
Subject: FS. Butterfly Kim Taek Soo blue label
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:16pm

www.flickr.com/photos/139101075@N03/

For sale is butterfly Kim taek soo blue label.
It has Kim taek soo autograph.

$500 PayPal gift option or you pay the 4% fee.

Equipment : Kokutaku Alnon Review

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Author: fatt
Subject: Kokutaku Alnon Review
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:17pm

Alnon - Koto/AramidCarbon/Limba/Kiri  ???
Zenon - Limba/ZylonCarbon/Limba/Kiri MJ
CanonZYC - Hinoki/ZylonCarbon/Kiri Amultart
CanonTRC - Hinoki/Carbon/Kiri Gergeley carbon

The one you review is an original composition; I could not find another blade made out of these plies. The koto outer, limba inner and kri core are the common ones with the Viscaria; I guess aramid carbon and arylate carbon are very close in terms of performance.

The Zenon is very tempting but is priced the same than the MJ... Cry





Edited by fatt - 1 hour 40 minutes ago at 4:20pm

For sale : FS/FT: Mazunov

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Author: calin__j
Subject: FS/FT: Mazunov
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:25pm

Available

Equipment : Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro

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Author: tabletennisfire
Subject: Ovtcharov true Carbon vs Tibhar Samsonov Force Pro
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:34pm

Originally posted by Zaid323918 Zaid323918 wrote:

Unfortunately there are a lot of beginners on tabletennisdb who can easily over rate or under rate a blade/rubber. For example there is one user who rated the Viscaria's control as less than 5 which is ridiculous as Viscaria is not that difficult to ontrol.


That makes sense. Thank you.

Equipment : Kokutaku Alnon Review

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Author: onehander
Subject: Kokutaku Alnon Review
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:41pm

Thank you Andy for the review. It's so useful that you use Viscaria as a reference comparison.  Personally, it's even more useful that you're using Hybrid K1+, my favorite forehand rubber since the end of last year.  
There is another blade with a very similar construction and is also made in Japan:
The Yasaka Alnade.   Even the name is close!   Could they be coming from the same factory?
Image result for yasaka alnade

For sale : FS:$170 Like New Old JM ZLC ST & more

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Author: E.ZegnaFan
Subject: FS:$170 Like New Old JM ZLC ST & more
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:49pm

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

you are partially correct and I am partially wrong; the Photino was $140 in Sept 2008; the MJ was $175 so your $5 discount makes your ad a good deal given that it's sort of a collectible.
anyway, always a pleasure to see your ads; good stuff guaranteed no matter the price! 
Thanks for your kind words fattTongue
I didn't know the price in 2008 since at that time I wasn't back to the sport yet but Official 2008 Butterfly Japan catalog price is  ¥18,900 equal to $170-$210 (depends on month) in 2008 but $175 in 2008 equal to $201 in 2017 Smile
After that BTY of North America raising the price for blades then JM ZLC was cost +/- $230 in 2012 then.
 
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For sale : Butterfly Innerforce blades

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Author: Rich215
Subject: Butterfly Innerforce blades
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:52pm

Up for sale are 3 innerforce blades.

1. IF ZLC  FL   81gm  (great shape, has a very small dent)   $145  will trade only with same FL ZLC but 86-88gms. 

2. IF ZLC  AN  84gm  (barely used, perfect shape)   $165

3. IF ZLF  FL  85gm  (sealed and graphics removed by previous owner, in excellent shape)  $145





Here are a few pics of the 81gm FL ZLC ding. 















Edited by Rich215 - 33 minutes ago at 4:56pm

General : U S Nationals 2017

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Author: berndt_mann
Subject: U S Nationals 2017
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 4:56pm

Boy Mike, that is a toughie.  At the World Vets' you're guaranteed at least three matches in the Championship and Consolation round robins plus you get to play against every style from steady Asian classic penhold topspinners to cagey Euro twiddlers who chop with long pips on their forehand side, have nasty angled pushes and sudden backhand attacks as quick as a desert thunderstorm.  It's ironic that now that I don't play competitively this particular World Vets' is just a 410 mile plane ride from Tucson.

OTOH, at the Nats you can enter any event for which you are eligible and as many events as your pocketbook can afford.  You just have to go with what your table tennis heart tells you on this one.

Equipment : Kokutaku Alnon Review

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Author: AndySmith
Subject: Kokutaku Alnon Review
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 5:17pm

Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

I love it's made in JAPANE .....

I initially thought it was a crazy intentional easter-egg shout-out to the misspelling on the original Viscaria, but it turns out it was just a run-of-the-mill misspelling on the first run.  I'm going to be very generous and call mine a collector's item. Wink

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Alnon - Koto/AramidCarbon/Limba/Kiri  ???
Zenon - Limba/ZylonCarbon/Limba/Kiri MJ
CanonZYC - Hinoki/ZylonCarbon/Kiri Amultart
CanonTRC - Hinoki/Carbon/Kiri Gergeley carbon

The one you review is an original composition; I could not find another blade made out of these plies. The koto outer, limba inner and kri core are the common ones with the Viscaria; I guess aramid carbon and arylate carbon are very close in terms of performance.

The Zenon is very tempting but is priced the same than the MJ... Cry

I think aramid and arylate are going to be pretty close in most of the ways that matter, but this could be what results in the slight difference in feel between the two.  If I'm not imagining that difference.  Or it could be the glue used, or the thickness/density of the weave, etc.

The price is crucial with these blades if they're going to get a foothold.  I'm hoping that we're looking at KKT's retail prices and stores will be "allowed" to discount, if you know what I mean.  

Originally posted by onehander onehander wrote:

There is another blade with a very similar construction and is also made in Japan:
The Yasaka Alnade.   Even the name is close!   Could they be coming from the same factory?

I don't know.  I was hoping to see some reviews of Alnade myself at some point, or add it to an order or something.

General : U S Nationals 2017

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Author: danseemiller
Subject: U S Nationals 2017
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 6:32pm

Guarantee of 8 matches at the World Vets if you have a doubles partner. 4 singles and 4 doubles.

General : TableTennis11 CEO Sergei Petrov + GeneralSpecific

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Author: SmackDAT
Subject: TableTennis11 CEO Sergei Petrov + GeneralSpecific
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 6:33pm

That dude is pretty skillful indeed. Respect!

Equipment : Kokutaku Alnon Review

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Author: SmackDAT
Subject: Kokutaku Alnon Review
Posted: 05/17/2017 at 6:36pm

Viscaria Light lookalike! Maybe it will be what the Viscaria Light never was...

Edit: You got a lot of money to EJ my man Thumbs Up


Edited by SmackDAT - 3 hours 24 minutes ago at 6:36pm
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